Interviews

Interview with Evan Kereiakes on Terra’s Launch, Building on Tendermint and Adoption Strategy in Asia

In this episode of the podcast, we are sharing a replay of a conference call with Evan Kereiakes that we held for our Premium subscribers. To learn how to become a premium subscriber, check it out here

Terra is a price-stable cryptocurrency aiming to empower the next-generation payment network on the blockchain. 6 months ago, the Korea-based team announced that they’ve raised $32mn from global exchanges including Binance Labs, OKEx, Huobi Capital, FBG and Dunamu — the firm behind Korea’s Upbit , along with Polychain, FBG and others. The project is headed by Daniel Shin, founder and president of TicketMonster— the $1.7 billion Korean e-commerce firm that has been formerly owned by both Living Social and Groupon. 

According to co-founder Do Kwon in his Medium post Scaling Seigniorage, Terra’s initial growth will be bootstrapped by an e-commerce payment gateway, TerraX, that is slated to be integrated into checkout processes of 15 e-commerce platforms across Asia collectively processing 25 billion USD in volume and 40 million monthly active users. 


About Our Guest Evan Kereiakes
Evan Kereiakes worked at the Federal Reserve Bank of New York for over 7 years. He was most recently the Head Japanese Portfolio Manager and Trading Operations Manager for the foreign reserves portfolio. Prior to that, he was an Economic Analyst at the U.S. Treasury, and he also worked at the White House National Economic Council. Evan holds an MBA from the University of Chicago, and engineering degrees from Duke and the University of Illinois.  

Other recent notable writings from Evan: 
Rationale for Including Multiple Fiat Currencies in Terra’s Peg 
A Look into the MakerDao Protocol


Full Interview Below:

Joyce Yang

Hi everyone, welcome to the global coin research conference call with me your host Joyce Yang, and I have a pleasure of speaking with Evans Kereiakes .

So for everyone’s information, this call is recorded. If you’d like to ask a question or you like to have your question asked anonymously, you can email me at [Joyce@globalcoinresearch.com] and I will ask the question for you. So participants now are in a listen-only mode, and later you’ll have questions. You’d have time to ask your questions. So I’m excited to start a conversation today with Evans, core researcher at Terra money. Evans is based in Korea and in Seoul specifically along with the rest of the Terra team. I’m very delighted to have Evans here talking to us about Terra and their stablecoin vision. So can you quickly introduce yourself to our audience Evans, and also give a quick download about Terra for our audience?

Evans Kereiakes  

Definitely. So great to be here. Thanks for hosting us on your podcast. So again I’m a core researcher at Terra, and Terra is one of the leading blockchain stablecoin companies. We’re going to be launching our stablecoin solution in about 2 or so months, essentially in Q2 of 2019, and I got involved with Terra about 6 months ago is when I moved to South Korea and started working. And formerly I’d been at the Federal Reserve Bank in New York as the Head Japanese Yen currency reserves portfolio manager, and I had been at the Fed for 7 years been at the Treasury doing fiscal policy, working on things related to the president for a year and also at the White House. 

So prior to coming to Terra, I had built up a lot of experience in the fiscal and monetary policy realm, and I kind of was bitten by the blockchain bug around the same time as the rest of the world in 2017, and started looking for really companies, protocols, really anybody that was interested in actually trying to drive adoption, trying to create an actual use case that could be adopted more widely than say what had been the prior state of blockchain adoption which was more so for trading and speculation. And that brought me to the stablecoin space, because I think stablecoins…. You know I mean, Bitcoin is phenomenally innovative, Ethereum gets a lot of credit for being innovative as well, but I think stablecoins are really one of the other great use cases that so far has not really reached their full potential. And I started going to blocks meetups in New York, met people who knew the Terra team, and I thought that Terra really had the best not only a concept of how to ensure stability, but also how to go to market and really propel a variety of use cases for their currency. And so I think the Terra protocol is very powerful in a number of ways and we’re lucky to have the founders that we have; Joe and Dan, who have a lot of experience in mesh networks and in those cases, and then with Dan who is also the co-founder Ticketmaster which is one of the biggest players in the e-commerce space in Korea. So they’re really putting together all the pieces of what you could call is sort of a robust stablecoin ecosystem, not only with disability picture but with trying to satisfy the stability side of the equation, but also the adoption side of the equation. And I can go into more detail about the protocol itself. So there’s two coins, Terra and Luna, but I want to pause here to see if you have any other questions. 

[ABOUT THE PROTOCOL]

Joyce Yang

 Yeah. No, I love to jump right into the new protocol that you guys just announced. So how does the protocol work and how is the system kept stabilized with the Luna coin?

Evans Kereiakes  

Yeah, so before I get into this, I want to highlight that we, for your audience that we’ve released a new version of the white paper, so I do encourage everyone to go to our website [Terra.money] to download it and get a more in-depth overview of what we’ll discuss here. So essentially with the protocol, it’s a dual token centralized stablecoin protocol based on the Terra and Luna coins. So there is the stablecoin; we actually have a family of stablecoins, and Luna is the ecosystem utility token that has multiple functions including validation, stability and governance. 

So talking a little bit more about Terra, at Genesis, we’re going to be launching with a few G20 pegged currency pairs, so this will include the Korean one, given that we’re launching in Korea, the US dollar, and over time we’ll be adding more of these currency pairs such as the Euro, Pound, Japanese Yen, Chinese Yuan and the IMF SBR which itself is a basket of currencies. 

And so these currencies will be what people use for e-commerce transactions and financial transactions, and we’re building in functionalities such that you can automatically swap very quickly between currencies because we recognize that if you are going to be driving ecommerce solution, ecommerce adoption and practical on-the-ground solutions that people in different countries can adopt, you need to really be able to allow them to transact and immediately exchange that which they’re most familiar with which is their local currency. 

So that’s why we’ve adopted this sort of family of currencies with the IMF SDR kind of being sort of what you could call like the mothership currency. And being a network of pegged currencies, the next question is so how do we maintain these pegs, and that brings us to the Luna token which along with validator oracles and our own decentralized exchange will work in in conjunction to maintain adherence to the various peg. 

[HOW LUNA FUNCTIONS AS STABILITY TOKEN]

So as I mentioned, Luna has a number of functions; stability, validation and governance, so it’s the native mining token for Terra transactions. So validators stake Luna to the system in order to validate Terra transactions and earn rewards which are transaction fees and seniors. And the validator is also by staking and valuing, play an important role in stabilizing the value of Terra during contractions by absorbing Terra’s price declines through the counter cyclical mining rewards that the system provides. So these rewards are derived again from Terra transaction fees and because we were building on blockchain, we have the ability to control these transactions fees and to adjust them to align with the broader economic environment. And if there is an economic contraction, we can raise transaction fees to help compensate miners for bearing some of the stability burden during that time. The transaction fees are capped at 2%, so they’re still competitive with other global payment networks. Similar to sort of Visa and Alipay which I’m happy to talk more about some of the other types of competitors that we face, but so much of these players are proven payments networks, can be very sticky, so they’re less prone to shocks so to say the broader economy would be prone to because once you create a valuable payment network that we’re building with the Terra Alliance, the switching costs are high because people find a variety of reasons to stick with that payment network even throughout various economic fluctuation. So that’s kind of how Luna acts, is a stability token in the Terra network. 

Joyce Yang

Yeah, that’s really helpful. I just wanted to make sure that I heard you right; you mentioned that you guys are launching a centralized solution pegged on the Yuan and the USD.

Evans Kereiakes  

It’s decentralized, but there will be a couple of currencies that we’re launching with, and we will expand this. We’ve implemented a framework for introducing more currencies, essentially whitelisting more Terra type currencies so long as the Luna validators vote to do so.

Joyce Yang

Got it. And so Terra just decided to change their protocol to proof of stake on Tendermint as you mentioned. Can you talk more about how the protocol was like before and why the change?

Evans Kereiakes  

Yeah. So before we chose to utilize Tendermint as the consensus algorithm there’s no specific decision on what protocol or algorithm we would use. We had looked into a couple options, but due to practical considerations, Tendermint was the best fit. So it’s a high TPS delegated status like blockchain, they’ll eventually have interoperability with other teams, and we feel validated to an extent in the choice already given that you have such notable and influential development teams as hyper ledger in the blockchain and the binance desks also building. With the Tendermint consensus, you could take a whole variety of competing blockchains; let’s just pick…. Ethereum for example is a potential alternative, and I think just given the uncertain path forward for a lot of these block chains in the fact that they can’t necessarily provide out of the box scaling that we need for a payment solution, and also given that we wouldn’t have control over transaction fees, which is a very important mechanism for us to ensure stability during contractions, were all reasons why we moved in the direction of developing Tendermint. So we announced this decision recently, but it’s been in the works for quite some time, and right now we’re running a private test net and we’re undergoing the code audit, and so we’re very confident in especially where we stand with Tendermint. And we will definitely be sharing more details of our blocking infrastructures soon obviously, so I just want to let you know that we’re going to help to inform people on for the logic of our choice.

Joyce Yang

Yep, that makes sense. And recently we saw thatBinance also announced that they were building on Tendermint given the high TPS and the kind of immediate finality features. So it makes sense that you guys are using that for e-commerce specifically. So I guess you mentioned that you guys are kind of pretty happy with…. kind of choose Tendermint, but I’m curious, are there any potential risks now that you decided to build on the protocol or is that kind of still undergoing a lot of testing and kind of iteration?

Evans Kereiakes  

Yeah, so I guess with past mining or with any consensus really, you could worry about the risk of mining power becoming concentrated and potential mining gaming. So I think one of the ways that you know Tendermint deals of this is the fact that is a  practical Byzantine default tolerance algorithm, so it requires 2/3 of power to attack instead of the two ounces an attack you know, validators stake is last if they misbehave. And so other things such as scalability and robustness you know, thats been tested for years and I guess another sort of uncertainty is the Cosmos of SDK that will allow interoperability, but we’re excited to see how this evolves over time.

Joyce Yang

Yeah, definitely that make sense. And I want to move on to kind of talk about adoption since that’s such a big focus for Terra from the get go. So in terms of adoption, but it sounds like the team with Do and Dan kind of wanted to focus on the adoption model of PayPal and eBay and kind of also like Alipay and Taobao as kind of iterations for Terra. Can you talk a little bit more about that?

[WHY LAUNCH IN ASIA]

Evans Kereiakes  

Yeah, so first let me let me back up and say that we chose Asia broadly as our launch pad for a couple reasons; so mobile payments penetration, blockchain innovation both outpace the rest of the world, so it’s a favorable operating backdrop. And really specifically to the examples you gave of Alipay and PayPal, I think the parallels are clear. We’re launching our payments solution with TMON, and we have a strong network of e-commerce partners which we call the Terra Alliance to essentially propel adoption throughout Asia and Southeast Asia. And e-commerce was a natural path to propel adoption because of a number of its inherent characteristics and strengths for us being that its scalable, its digital in Asia in particular, it’s an incredibly high-growth industry and the e-commerce in Korea is growing at about 15% per year, and in other parts of Asia is growing at up to 30% per year. And our alliance partners are growing at a very rapid pace within this space, so we found it was the most scalable highest growth environment for us to get our payment solution into the hands and billions of users. So I guess I can rattle off a couple stats about our alliance; essentially, we’ve built an alliance team on being our sort of flagship initial adopters. And beyond that, we have 15 partners across Asia including Carousel, Q10 in Singapore, we have Kiki in Vietnam, and so on. And collectively, they process 25 billion in annual gross merchandise volume and they have 45 million users. So given all these sort of overlapping factors, I think Asia is really a place to be, it’s kind of a hotbed for e-commerce innovation, so that’s really playing to our strengths.

Joyce Yang

Yeah, for sure. And I think for folks who may not be as familiar with Asia, every country kind of has their own e-commerce leaders and Carousel was one of leading e-commerce players in Singapore and it’s very localized. And so as a sort of some of the other kind of e-commerce players that you mentioned, can you talk a little bit more about how Terra and Luna would interact with these e-commerce players and the consumers, if you can maybe perhaps walk us through just quickly how consumers will potentially use Terra in these platforms?

Evans Kereiakes  

Sure. So we’ve really streamlined that whole process for the merchants and for the customers, but by building our own payments DApp, and so for the retailers, they only need to include a button with an API interface that will allow customers to check out with Terra. And you know that there’s a lot of work that is required in the background to make this happen which we’re doing as a team across Korea and Asia and you know, we have to sign up the banking partnerships, you have to get the email licenses, you have to go through whatever regulatory hurdles are necessary to make this happen. 

But essentially from them from the merchant’s perspective, it’s seamless. From the customer perspective, they don’t feel as if they’re even interacting with a cryptocurrency to begin with, it’s simply another payment option that they would be more likely to choose because part of our sort of incentive to adopt Terra as a payment provider is that we give customer discounts say 2-5, even say 10 percent for a new user in order to help them sort of overcome that hurdle for signing up. And essentially this all goes back to the stickiness of payments because once you sign someone up for a payment solution, it generally is their preferred solution for future payments, so that’s essentially how we make it seamless for all parties involved, but also help to grow adoption quickly.

Joyce Yang

So I say I have Terra and in my wallet and then I sign into a meta mask or another kind of solution and essentially integrate with, that kind of connects with the merchant and then allows me to pay with Terra.

Evans Kereiakes  

That’s one interesting proposition that I think, you know, we could explore further. But I think for the starting integrations, we’re launching our own payment app. So other solutions such as like, Metamask aren’t necessarily applicable in this in this case, so you would you would use the Terra payment app. However, we will have a Terra sort of Desktop Explorer for validators and also in mobile Terra wallets that would be separate from the payment solution. So there will be plenty of you know expansion and Terra payments beyond our alliance that we built, that are going to be on board with our payments app.

Joyce Yang

Got it. So you’re really building the entire kind of the horizontal solution from initially when the customer first initial interact or received Terra to kind of interfacing with the e-commerce players directly and kind of in the siloed way for payments.

Evans Kereiakes  

Exactly. For this first phase of expansion. Yes. 

Joyce Yang

Yeah, that’s really interesting. I guess my next question is could Alipay or PayPal come up with their own digital token like what you guys have? 

Evans Kereiakes  

 Yes. So that’s something we always think about; Alipay token, PayPal, Amazon token, Facebook coin, whatever; JPM coin. I think they would still be inherently centralized and also lacking the dual token structure that Terra is adopting. So they don’t necessarily have the same sort of decentralized strategy and growth strategy that Terra has, where we specifically try to return benefits of growth back to the users and the network. And I say a for-profit company might not necessarily do this. But I think in the long run though, more attention in the blockchain stablecoin payment space can only benefit Terra as a first mover, so think it’s really a matter of fact that there will be a whole host of new centralized stablecoins launch in the coming years, because it’s not very challenging to do, and it’s something that will continue to sort of be discussed as the ecosystem develops, but it’s not something that we’re necessarily concerned about. 

Joyce Yang

Got it. And, you know, I think one thing you mentioned that was quite special about Terra as well as that you guys have had these partnerships around different regions in Asia. And I think I recently read that you had a…. Terra had an announcement with a partnership with the government of Mongolia. Maybe if you could just give us a quick overview of what kind of partnerships you’ve been kind of working on and any new announcements there from those progress?

[KAKAO INVESTMENT AND MONGOLIA PARTNERSHIP]

Evans Kereiakes  

Yeah definitely. So I do want to highlight one right off the bat and we announced that yesterday. So we received a strategic investment from Kakao ventures and which is the early stage venture capital arm of Kakao For those that might not know, Kakao is really the internet messaging giant in Korea with 50 million users. And through this partnership, we hope to release the Terra stablecoin solution and just sort of deepen our ties within the current economy. We’ve been spending a lot of time in Asia and China, Thailand, Vietnam, to build out our partnerships, and our goal is to launch in another Southeast Asian country by the end of the year or early 2020 after we’ve on boarded and number of Korean partners first. And yeah, like I said earlier, we’re doing all the underground work right now to connect with local blockchain teams, banks, payment processors to build this groundwork, which is something that I don’t think really any other stablecoin team is doing. 

With Mongolia in particular, that is actually really exciting, it’s a really great use case study. So I’ve been talking about how we’re really having something that’s kind of brand new and pushing stablecoin payments adoption in a variety of countries where the regulatory landscape is not necessarily clear. And so we’re trying to figure this out on a case by case basis, but Mongolia is unique because it seemed like the perfect place to test how much we could achieve when we do have full government support from the get go. So Mongolia is a small country with a population of 3 million, most of them live in the capital city. So it’s kind of like a nice pilot for showcasing the benefits of this level of integration. And we’ve launched with the capital city to pilot a blockchain based mobile payment system where the city is encouraging it citizens to pay their utility bills with Terra, they’ll receive government subsidies, welfare, you name it, in Terra. And these are things that you need government support to achieve. And so this will be really the first real blockchain payments and government partnerships deliver meaningful results for citizens on the ground. So in that respect, we’re really excited to see how much impact we can have in transforming Mongolia’s very cash based society into a more capitalist one with more transparent and efficient digital payments and really enhancing government efficiency throughout the process. 

Joyce Yang

That’s really exciting. I had no idea was that extensive where you are paying utility bills in Terra. And what is the timing on that? 

Evans Kereiakes  

So the timing is to continue with integration, launch…. I think the launch would occur in the second half of 2019.

Joyce Yang

Got it. And how are these different regulators receiving the stablecoin concept? It sounds like Mongolia has been quite advanced which is very impressive, but I’m sure the conversations come very by a lot in all these different countries that you’re speaking with. 

Evans Kereiakes  

Yeah, definitely. And I mean, just the caveat on that you know, privy to some of those discussions, but I do know more broadly speaking that the landscape in Asia is more favorable, it’s more forward looking. And especially Singapore, I think has really set an example globally on how to create an environment all as a sandbox of storage where you can allow innovation to occur. And even institutions within Singapore such as Monetary Authority of Singapore has been testing their own blockchain settlement solutions with other central banks. And so that’s why Terra has incorporated in Singapore and that’s why it’s kind of sort of can be a hub for our Southeast Asian team. More broadly, I think you begin to have more and more favorable reception and conversations the more you prove the underlying value of your technology. And so this is an ongoing process. But we’ve met with a number of regulators, central bank, Bank of Japan, you name it. We’re really putting a lot of emphasis on building those on-the-ground relationships. 

Joyce Yang

Yeah, that sounds like hard work, but it’s amazing progress you guys have already made. So at this moment, I’m going to open up the questions for the audience. So if you are interested in asking Evans a question, please press *6, and I will be signaled that you would like to ask a question. I will cue you by your last 4 digits of your phone number. And while we’re kind of tally up the questions, I just have a few questions from our global coin research audience who couldn’t make the call, but want to ask Evans some more questions. And the first one is they’re curious to hear your thoughts on MakerDao. 

Evans Kereiakes  

Yes. So Makerdao. Yeah, I wrote a median price at MakerDao. And essentially, maybe on MakerDao has that it has pros and cons. The pros are, they’ve done a very good job of proving the food centralized stablecoin can exist and maintain the peg and they deserve a lot of credit for that. And I also think it’s remarkable that the system held up during the Great crash of 2018, even during, their CEO is equally impressed by that. So the cons are that it’s a complex system with incentives that vary greatly by each participant’s role. So supply and demand aren’t necessarily always aligned and can kind of create liquidity and incentive mismatch. But really, I think one of the main drawbacks is that crypto over causation hinders growth, because it’s taps valuable capital that could be better used for stimulating adoption. So in 2018 you saw a number of centralized stablecoins that launched after MakerDao had already launched, and the centralized stablecoins you know, irrespective, regardless of all their flaws and whatnot, they’ve managed to eclipse MakerDao in market cap and trading volume. So MakerDao seems to be more playing the long game perhaps, but it still remains to be sort of how the system will evolve, how the maker token will be valued if network growth is slower than other stablecoins that are trying to have a mechanism that prioritizes adoption more so than MakerDao does. 

Joyce Yang

Yeah, that makes sense. It sounds like mostly right now they’re kind of working on educating and so on the mechanisms of how the maker coin works. But we haven’t yet to see that much adoption, but I know they’re working our partnerships as well. So another question from the audience. Sorry, did you want to say something? 

Evans Kereiakes  

 Oh, no. Yeah, I agree with you. 

Joyce Yang

Yeah. So another question is, could the Terra token be immediately used when it launches? What’s the timing there? I think you mentioned and few months and we actually see adoption. So it sounds like it’ll be a Korea first given the Alliances that you have there.

Evans Kereiakes  

Yeah, so both the stablecoin Terra and ecosystem coin Luna will be listed for trading in a couple months, a little bit before our first payment product integration which is scheduled for launch in Q2 2019. Yeah, so once exchange listing begins, it’ll be available for purchase by people who are approved to trade on whatever exchanges currently listed on. For use of the payments product itself, that will be centered around again our sort of go to market strategy with the Terra alliance that’s where it came on as sort of flagship partner and we’ll sort of roll this out to a number of other Korean companies before expanding throughout Asia. 

That being said, we’ve received a lot of inbounds from interested Alliance members, so alliance could go to other areas where we haven’t yet explored. Yeah, so that’s kind of how it breaks down. It’s a little bit bifurcated between a payment solution, so the payments app and then broader listing. So we’re excited to see sort of the broader stablecoin use case that is made possible by providing access to Terra, to the broader global community. And we’re also excited to see how payments become more valuable as we expand and people are more familiar our payment solution as well. And like I said before, we’ll have a desktop wallet and explore validators and a mobile wallet. So especially with the mobile wallet, the functionality is pretty exciting, there’s a lot of cool features, so it should be really fun for people to get excited about Terra even if they’re not within sort of the sphere of the Terra alliance. 

Joyce Yang

Yeah, it sounds like you are working on the consumer side and then the e-commerce partnership side and also kind of launching the coins all at once so it definitely sounds like a really hectic but lots of exciting stuff about when this is really all kind of get pushed out and work together. So that’s really cool. Is there going to be master nodes on the protocol? Are e-commerce players going to be the main speakers and participants on the protocol?

[EARLY STAKERS DURING LAUNCH]

Evans Kereiakes  

Oh yeah. So we have a number of strategic early investors including exchanges that may or may not decide to stake. So not necessarily privy to those conversations, I think overall we’re aiming for around 100 what I’ll call validators in the early phases, but we can expand to about 300 validators to make this system a little bit more decentralized without compromising to a great extent on transaction processingthroughput, so thats kind of the plan forvalidators, but for future blockchain related developments and stats, I think we’re going to come out with more details on the infrastructure like I mentioned earlier, just to make sure that everyone is informed to make sure that people have full understanding of what it means to be a validated network. 

Joyce Yang

Got it. And I have some questions from email here. One question from our reader is that why is Terra changing the technology stack so late just before launch? 

Evans Kereiakes  

So again, the decision was made quite some time ago. It was only more recently announced publicly, but I shared some reasons for why Tendermint is an optimal choice for us. And as far as sort of more details around blockchain infrastructure, our concerned you know, we’ll be sharing that soon. I don’t have a whole lot more on the consensus side to share with you at this point publicly. 

Joyce Yang

And another question is, what is your plan to compete against Starbuck and Bakkt retail partnerships? 

Evans Kereiakes  

Yeah. So I think that’s a very exciting development coming out of us. I think one byproduct of SECs regulatory scrutiny of crypto in the US is that it’s really crushed some of the native innovation developments that’s occurred and it’s really steered blockchain innovation into the hands of big companies instead, such as Facebook, JP Morgan, buck, Starbucks, you name it. But in the grand scheme of things for the adoption of you know, when it comes to trying to spread adoption of blockchain technology and benefits to users. I don’t think it’s a bad thing at all that big companies are getting involved. I think you could say the same about Alipay potentially launching a blockchain payment solution as well. 

So Starbucks, I think really any merchant realizes that the choice of payment provider, it’s really up to the consumer. So Starbucks has its own credit card and their own mobile app where you can pay and you get coins and all that. But they accept I would say 10-20 or so different, maybe up to 50 different payment options globally. And so we think that with QR code, offline payments technology, where it is today, that there can easily be a payment preferred payment provider for customers. And that’s really what these merchants I think are most concerned about. We’re excited as we roll out our alliance to have more conversations with some of these other major merchants including those that are not headquartered in Asia. 

Joyce Yang

Great. And last question, how closely are you working with the Cosmos team? that’s also from the reader. 

Evans Kereiakes  

So I know that are blockchain engineering team isn’t working with them. But yeah, I don’t have any other information on sort of the level of integration, but I know that they have representatives here in Korea too, so the conversations are very productive. 

Joyce Yang

Great. Yeah, this has been awesome. Evans, thank you so much for sharing all these great and exciting news about Terra with us. I’m looking forward to the launch and I hope if there’s ways that our audience would get in touch or learn more about Terra, how should they do that? 

Evans Kereiakes  

I think the best way is to go to our website [Terra.money]. Also, we have a telegram chat where people are really free to ask more detailed questions about the blockchain, the economics, underpinnings of protocol. We’re active on Twitter, Medium is a great outlet for us for posting more in depth content. And I think there are links to all these forums through our website. So I’d say the first place to start is going to our website [Terra.money]. And yeah, feel free to reach out to us, we always love to engage the community. 

Joyce Yang

Yeah, that’s great. I’ll make sure to link everything you mentioned also in more detail to our readers. So thank you so much, this is this is all, thanks folks for dialing in. I think we learned so much from Evans about Terra so I’m hoping to stay in touch and follow up with more of the progress that you guys make in the near future. 

Evans Kereiakes  

Absolutely. That sounds great. Thanks so much for having us. 

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